99 Dev Problems: week-daily livestream to interview developers on their day-to-day challenges and how they overcome them. Mostly to help me polish my dev skills and get back to coding myself, but also to re-engage with developers I haven't spoken to in years, or build new relationships.

1. Host: Tessa Kriesel
2. Awesome Guest: Chris Swift

Transcript

Excited to have you on the show, Chris. How are you this, well, in my time zone, in your time zone, it's a morning. How are you this fine morning? Doing well. I hope you are. I am. First show, right? So a little anxious about how to, making sure this all goes well. I'm also curious if this ad media source actually shows up for other viewers. So I'm gonna go pop over to YouTube really quick and see. I did see it pop up on LinkedIn. So we're there at the very least. Nice. Let me get rid of the sound so I don't hear myself. Okay. No, it just shows up like a black box, which is unfortunate, but that's fine. I'll learn. We'll learn all the formatting things as we go, right? All right. So we'll just chat for a few minutes here because it's actually scheduled for 10 a.m. Central. So I don't want anyone to come on and miss any good insights. So you and I have been hanging out for a while, right? So we were just chatting about bringing different developer events into the built for dev hub. And you had some really interesting ideas. So I'm really excited about that. I think there's just an opportunity right now. And I'd love to get your take on this. I think there's an opportunity right now to bring a lot of developer events that are very community driven back into, I don't want to say back into the ecosystem. Well, that's not the angle I wanted, but to have more of them, right? And I think with COVID, a lot of those developer focused community events died off and they haven't come back to life. And I attended Commit Your Code a couple of weeks ago, and it just was like everything that I've been missing the last couple of years, like all the community goodness. What's your take on that? What do you think as it comes to dev events? Well, you know, there's several, it's like an onion, right? There's several layers to it. You know, you think, you know, pulling out a Shrek quote right there. But, you know, when you think about pre-pandemic, you know, we were doing meetups all the time. You know, I'm central to Raleigh, North Carolina. And, you know, we had meetups. Gosh, I, that was also before I was married. So I had time, right? But, you know, I was going to two or three meetups a week. And, you know, that culture was so big. And, you know, after the pandemic, a lot shifted. And, you know, one of the most fortunate things that came out of the pandemic is our meeting software is significantly better. Right. And that opens the door for doing more virtual conferencing and virtual meetups and so forth. But I do think that there's a lot of folks who don't know how to find those. There's a lot of folks who don't know where to look. There's a, you know, overwhelm of, you know, opportunities. And so how do we, how do we hone that and get folks the meetups they need and help them grow? Yep. Yep. I fully agree. And I kind of laughed a little bit when you said the before you were married thing, because I remember, well, Danny Thompson actually just said something this morning on LinkedIn, where he was talking about why he helps developers in the way that he does. And I was like, oh, I can relate so much. And that it was, hey, I came from a low income, you know, previous career and everything changed. Right. And so digressing and getting to the point here is that the whole point of it is bringing those people together and bringing those different meetup opportunities together and really finding each other. You know, like, people say that we're anti-social, but we're not anti-social. Like, we just want to hang out with our peers. Right. Like, that's, that's what we want at the end of the day. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll call two things out right, right quick. Danny Thompson, I got the pleasure of meeting him when he was in Raleigh for All Things Open in October. And, you know, I've never seen somebody so eager who just rose right on up. And, you know, he's become such a staple in our community. And he is so eager, not for his own growth, but to help everybody grow. And, you know, we, we just, we need more of that. And, and, you know, Danny, if you're listening, you know, so thrilled with what you've done. Keep it up. Yes. Yes. I fully, fully agree. All right. I think I found the right format. It brought us back. Awesome. I lost our ticket, but that's okay. Okay. So we're, yeah, yeah. It's 10 a.m. Central time. Anyways, it's whatever time you might be in your time zone. So let's kick off the show. Chris, tell us what you do. Where do you work? What's your title or what industry are you in? So I work for a bank, Live Oak Bank based out of Wilmington, North Carolina. I am a software engineer there. Been there, gosh, it'll be four years in March. Yeah. Yeah. Longest, longest I've ever been in any role. I don't know if it's because of the pandemic or the exciting stuff I get to work on, you know, and, and we'll get into the exciting stuff I get to work on here in a few minutes. But, you know, I, I been there just about four years, loving it, you know, getting to do all kinds of different stuff, you know, mostly Node.js. Did some React there. We're, I'm all over the place getting to work on, on different pieces in our, our stack and parts of our business. Gosh, I've been doing this 12, 13 years and gotten to do a little bit of everything. So not to, not to segue away from your question, Tessa, go ahead. I love it. No, no, this is great. I mean, this is your time to, you know, introduce yourself, right? What do you do? Where are you at? What do you, you know, the awesome things you've got to do? Sure. All right. Yeah. Oh, I was just going to say, you know, for, for boot campers and, and junior devs listening in, you know, I've changed my stack, gosh, six times in that 13 years. I've changed my focus several times. I've done DevOps. I've done UX. I've done backend, front end, full stack. I've done iOS. You name it. I've done it. And, and I think that goes to show any software engineer is capable in any software engineering depth. And so don't be afraid to, you know, try something new. Certainly don't put yourself in a box. You're not a front end dev. That might be your specialty today, but you're not limited. And so, sorry. I, I, I love that, that, uh, spiel. So Tessa, what else do you have? No, that's great. And actually I full, fully, fully agree. Um, really, really quickly. One of my first roles, I was integrating a product into chamber websites and all of these different chamber websites had different, um, content management systems. So I touched over like a hundred content management systems and one of my first kind of product start like SAS roles. And I will tell you this, like it was very awesome at the time. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is a nightmare because every day I had to learn something new, which for in my prime, I was eager to do. Right. But you get frustrated by it. Right. You get annoyed that you're like, ah, why is this CMS not as easy as the one I just did yesterday? You know, but it pushes you to be able to do what you just said, where you have that that skill set that can really push and range into like all the different programming languages. Well, and what you just described is something very interesting. And I hope I hope so many folks get the opportunity to do something similar because it builds your problem solving skills up immeasurably. Right. Yeah. One of the things and I'm not certainly not knocking next or react or anything like that. But one of the things, one of the main problems I see today is folks go and they learn next and they're a next developer and they don't learn how to be transient between libraries and frameworks and so forth. You know, I remember, you know, 10 years ago we were doing Angular and we were doing jQuery inside of that Angular. And I remember being in Mootools. Oh, I'm dating myself, Laura. But I remember being in all of these different things and you would be combining them in some cases and how you dealt with that and interactions between. And so few folks are actually getting exposed to the JavaScript engine below now and, you know, understanding how to interact with elements and events and so forth. It's it's a lost art. Yes. Yes. OK, so I want to get into the questions, but the last little piece to add to that, I just had a conversation with someone that said that is that a lot of modern developers today don't understand the systems at which they're building on. And I thought that was that was really, really true and very accurate to that. So let's come back to this because there's definitely a conversation. I'd love to hear what is your developer education, right? A lot of us devs have all varying different forms of education. What's yours? This is one of my favorite questions. So I have a I have two four year degrees. I have a degree in comp sci and a degree in it and they're two very, very different things. Very, very much so. Very, very different. What I would call out is, you know, and I'm sure somebody is going to rake me over the calls for this. I don't think that the four year degree is necessary. Everybody says that. Fine. Cool. Whatever. I don't think the four year degree is necessary. I do think there are some really valuable foundations that you get from it. You know, I'm not talking about binary search trees or anything like that. But, you know, just being able to do the logic and understand, you know, how does an if statement work? How do Boolean, you know, chains work? How do you write a function and, you know, do input output appropriately? All of these things. We learned these things. I spent, you know, I'll never forget. We spent four weeks on functions and I thought it was crazy. Right. We spent four weeks on the concept of functions and how you deal with input output, what you should be doing inside of it. What is a functionally written function versus a, you know, globally written function and why a globally written function is bad. You know, that kind of thing. We went over all of it. And that's something I don't see boot camps doing. Right. And, you know, we almost need a boot camp plus or a foundation boot camp that actually teaches those things. I desperately wish we had a foundations boot camp because as a self-taught developer, I don't have those foundations like I should have. I adapted. I adapted. Right. I spent a significant amount of time being a developer and found great success. But now coming back to trying to learn to code again is, you know, we've been chatting about lately. I shouldn't say trying to learn to code. I know how to code. It's just bringing polishing and bringing back the muscle memory. Right. But as I'm diving back into that, like the foundations is where I lack. And if I had that, I think the muscle memory would come a little bit more naturally instead of leaning into the framework or language or stack that I'm building on. Yes and no. You know, right. You know, the foundations are, you know, something that if you know where to find information on it, which is where it becomes really tricky. You can use it like reference material. It's not something that I would, you know, sweat over or anything like that. It's mostly how do you learn those really good muscle memory tools like like functional programming, you know, practice functional programming, go practice unit testing, go practice all of these things. And and you'll really see it, you know, take effect. Yep. All right. On to the list of questions. I think you and I can talk for hours. But OK, so you alluded in the beginning, you had made a comment around we'll get into the exciting things that I'm building. We are we are there. I would love to know, you know, what are you building? Obviously, leaving proprietary information aside, but letting us know sort of what's your stack? What's the use case? What are you building? Just kind of where are you getting your hands in right now? Sure. Sure. You know, it's it's to zoom out. Right. Live Oak Bank has existed as a fully digital bank since 2008, which is wild. Right. You know, how do you how do you join that market, especially in 2008 and be successful? For those who don't know, 2008 was terrible economically. Yep. Yep. But, you know, how do you join that market? And not only, you know, we didn't cruise. We were like ramp right on up. And, you know, I commend our SLT senior leadership team, our founders. You know, they've done such a good job in getting us to where we are. And I was not a part of that. I joined in 2021. However, however, you know, I've seen the various different challenges of, you know, we have a big Salesforce presence. We have a big AWS presence. We have some proprietary financial cores, which a financial cores is effectively a database slash API that has all of the financial rules and regulations baked into it. You know, and, you know, we do what I like to call integration based development, where we have, you know, one vendor and another vendor, and we're often the glue between to help the customer go from start to finish. Right. And so figuring that out, it's a very different style of development, but it's like a puzzle. Yep. I agree with that. Okay. So what kind of puzzles are you solving, essentially? I mean, I know it's hard to speak to that, but if you can speak to some of your puzzles, I think the devs would love to hear that. Sure. You know, one of my favorite things that I got to do this year was around programmatic loan booking and, you know, bringing that to our lenders so that, you know, they aren't doing the manual. Click here, then click here, then click here, then type in over here and click submit. Right. Right. Right. You know, the loan booking process, when you're doing it on some of these proprietary financial cores, it can take an hour. Right. And so, you know, one of the things that we were able to do was leverage some of their APIs and really, you know, build these loans in a draft format and taking that information out of Salesforce and putting it there. And that integration is probably four layers deep. Right. Right. And so how do you deal with data mapping from one system to another to another and putting all of that together so that it works and it works efficiently and it works accurately? Absolutely. And so, you know, we, my team probably spent in the range of three, 400 hours on that this year, which isn't crazy, you know, but it's, it's, it's a significant amount of time. And so, you know, that's, that's personally, you know, probably my favorite achievement this year. But we've, we've got a couple other things. We've got something up for patent that I've worked on for about three years as a side project at the bank. Can't talk to her at anything more than that, but it's, it's pretty neat. Right. You know, and, and that's, that's one thing I would encourage any, any developers listening, you know, as silly as it sounds, go figure out if what you're working on is patentable. Because, you know, I've now got two patents with the bank and, and, you know, neither one I thought was like, oh, this, this will never be anything like that. And started talking with legal and all of a sudden we had two patents. Right. And so it's, it's that chase that. Yeah. Well, something else that you spoke to too, which I think is, you know, in my day to day, obviously I'm, I'm doing a lot more business strategy and a lot more growth strategy. So to just kind of speak to what you just shared, as you were talking about the loan process, right? It can take a full hour to go to click all those buttons. Like we've been there, right? We've been behind a bank teller when they're trying to do the various things. And it's like, I'm just trying to deposit money. Like it can't be. Yeah. Why is it taking seven minutes? Yeah. Why are you tapping so many things? What are you typing? It's looking at sort of that business value, right? Is that business value of what your team is able to do is you're able to remove, I mean, hours and hours and hours of time from the loan originator, whatever they call them. I think they're like loan officers or something, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's that, that works. Yeah. Loan officers, whomever they are, right? You're able, you're able to like save them time as devs. We love to save time. It might not always be for us, but we're saving somebody time. Right. Sure. What do you, what would you say in terms of business value that you, your work contributes to? Because I think that's, what's really great to, to sort of like shed light on for developers is like we write code and we do things and we solve problems. But like, what are we actually impacting? What is like that beautiful impact of the work that we're doing? Sure. Sure. You know, ironically, I got an email this morning from my CTO about speed to market. And that's, that's my, my current, you know, hot topic on my brain right now. You know, over the last two, three months, we've been talking about developer efficiencies and, and how do we, how do we make developers more efficient, but also keep that quality in mind. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. And, you know, that's such a tough hill. And, uh, I'm going to say there's a whole nother talk about AI and developer efficiency, and I would love to do it. And it's not this morning. Uh, we'll, we'll do that next time. Um, but you know, I, I think that asking the right questions and, and figuring out a game plan is, is always key in that speed to market. Um, but it's, it's also timing the market, right. You know, making sure you're, you're bringing the right product to market. You can bring something really fast, but if it's not right, it was wasted time. Yep. So when you're in your day to day, I'm kind of hearing off a little bit of the normal questions I gave you, but in your day to day, those, um, decisions or make a lot of those sort of translations of like, Hey, you know, we're provided this task, but, um, you know, sort of like a scrum master, right? Oftentimes we'll see a scrum master that's like, this is the most important thing, but like, we don't always have scrum masters. So I'm curious, like, do you have someone that's sort of your go between that saying, Hey, this is more important than others or in your day to day role? Are you actually having to prioritize some of that, those opportunities in that work? Um, yes and no. Right. So, you know, from a technical perspective, breaking down tickets and saying, yeah, you know, there's five pieces here or let's skip the fifth one. Right. We, we do that and we can say, Hey, you know, this can be done later. Uh, it, it, it always depends on the business priority for certain things, but, but definitely getting to break down and say, Hey, yeah. You know, let's make this piece of reusable module because I'm going to use it again next month. You know, stuff like that. We were empowered to go and just do, um, stuff like, Hey, this is going to make this more performant and it takes another 20 minutes. Awesome. Yeah. We're going to do that. It's, it makes sense to. Yep. Yep. I fully agree. Okay. I like that. I was actually chatting with the developer at commit your code conference. Um, again, to bring that up and they were talking with me and they were very frustrated with the business decisions that their company was making. And they felt like it wasn't going in the right direction, that they weren't chasing after the right things. They had a very archaic, um, infrastructure and they felt that they were in a lot of technical debt. And they started, you know, asking me questions of like, how do I pursue this? How do I, you know, chase this down? And I think obviously it varies business to business, but have you been in a situation where you had to either a go and try and understand the business strategy to be like, why are they making these? What I think are stupid decisions or B have you had to go and advocate and say, Hey, I think I'm seeing everything. I don't align with it. What can, what, you know, tell me what I'm missing. Right. Have you had to be in any of those hard conversations? So, you know, it's interesting. And I love that question. That's such a fantastic, you know, starter. Um, I, I have been involved with a few of those things. Um, we rewrote our loan servicing platform a few years ago, and I was a big part of helping to design that, get that out there. Um, and I made a lot of the, the suggestions to the business for how to handle pieces of it. And it, it really empowered me as, as a pseudo product owner. Um, but one of the, one of the things that I'd call out going back to your, your conversation with the person that commit your code, you know, it becomes a really dangerous slope to get yourself in the mindset of, Hey, I disagree with the business in, and you start to spiral. Right. Because when, when, when that starts to happen, one of two things is likely to happen. You're either gonna fight to fix the problem or, you know, what I've seen mostly in my career is when somebody finds themselves in that situation and they're like, no, I'm disengaged. I'm going to leave. Right. Yeah. And, and, you know, I, I'm obviously prefer the former. How do we, how do we educate people toward the former? Yeah. And what I would say is most decisions in a business are being made based on data and where the business market is and so forth. If you, if you, as an engineer can help point at those things and say, Hey, you know, based on the data, we should do X or Y or Z. Right. You know, that's, that's how you have that conversation. As an engineer, you don't, you don't want to go into a lot of discussions and just say, yeah, you know, we're filled with tech debt. So I need six months. Right. That's never going to get buy-in. It doesn't work. And so, you know, you have to creatively carve out and say, Hey, you know, this page. Yeah. I'm seeing customers are having problems with it. And these are the problems that I see. And this is how we fix the problems. You have to describe your tech debt as something that buys the business something, you know, Hey, if we fix this part of this page, your customers, they're more likely to convert a sale. Right. It's, it's that. It's, it's not, Hey, I don't like the way this is written. Sorry. You know, I need two months to rewrite it. Well, it's like when we present problems, right? We are supposed to present problems with solutions in an ideal world. Right. And so I think it's the same sentiment. There is like, can you come in with solutions versus I see problems. I see problems. I love that answer. Great answer. Super great answer. All right. Let me, let me pull up my little questions here. You know, first, our first episode. I'm still mastering the questions. I'm honored to be on the first one. Yes. Same. I was so glad that you picked the first date. Okay. So these are good questions. Cause these are going to help devs that don't know where to go and what to do. When you are stuck, where do you go? What's your resource? Is it people? Is it online? Yeah. Such a great question. And, you know, it's varied at different points in my career. And I will call out the pandemic and remote culture definitely made it more interesting. You know, I remember 10 years ago, you know, I was, gosh, I was a mid-level engineer 10 years ago. And I do have a spiel there. I'll do it real quick. Juniors, the hardest thing is the code. Mid-level, the hardest thing is figuring out how your code works with other people's code. Seniors, the hardest thing is understanding the product. And above the hardest thing is helping everybody else understand the orchestration of everything. Right. And so, you know, when I was, when I was mid, I was, I was just trying to figure out how to make it right. And I, there's a group of seniors who I would just walk over to their cubes and I would talk to, and they would often help, help me get unstuck. Well, you know, fast forward to now, so few of us are actually in offices. How do you deal with that? And, you know, it's, it's one thing to have those relationships when you can walk over and talk to somebody, you know, you generally have a deeper relationship. Yep. Figuring out how to create those relationships remotely, whether it's on Teams or Slack or so forth, it's a challenge. And, you know, so I, I would go back to build those relationships so you can help solve those problems. For me, I have a few super senior type folks who I'll go and, and we'll, we'll throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Hmm. I really like that. Okay. So for folks who don't have those super senior, senior folks, they can go to, which by the way, I think one commentary on what you shared is pre pandemic, you're able to walk up to somebody. Obviously during the pandemic, we didn't get that Liberty anymore. Do you feel like you were able to flex your skills to actually get outside of your current circle then? Cause I do think that's sort of the one positive, right. Is can you expand? Yes. Okay. I love that. Yeah. You know, just, just real quick. Right. You know, building those relationships and being intentional, you know, it's, it's very tough in the remote culture and, you know, you've just got to write people. You've just got to be friendly, you know, don't, don't pry into their lives, but, you know, you've just got to be friendly. And, you know, I would write people and say, Hey, how was your weekend? Hope it was good. And it's not prying to see what they were doing. It's just to be friendly. And, and, you know, you're not just a green bubble in the chat client and be that person. Yes. I had to lock my door cause my toddler tries to come in for my patio. Um, I really liked that. Honestly, I, I could go down a whole questioning line here with like, how do you find those people? Sounds like another episode. I know. Right. Okay. So let's say hypothetically, you didn't have those senior developers in your circle, or let's say you shift roles. You're in a new role. You're still Chris today. What's going to be your go-to? Are you going to go to the senior devs in your new role, or are you going to try to build relationships externally? Where do you do that? What would be kind of your next inclination? Or if you're so stacked with those devs, how would you recommend that others go to actually start to build that up? So, wow. There's like four questions there. I know. But, uh, you know, building, building developer relationships internally or externally is key, right? You know, externally is a benefit for both networking as well as, you know, you, you don't necessarily have the judgment that you might internally. And, you know, that sounds so silly to say, but there's, there's always internal judgment of when you're actually seeing someone else's production code. There's, there's, it's a different relationship and it's not a bad one. It's just a different one. Yep. And, you know, I would say that, you know, finding that respect internally, externally, whatever, whatever it looks like is key. You know, internally, you have some benefits because, you know, folks start to get those war stories of, oh yeah, this repository is awful. And we've all been through it and you can relate. And, and that opens a lot of doors. But, you know, I, I would say externally and, and in other environments, you know, you, you have a unique hill, right? You know, how do you want to create those relationships externally? And, and, you know, this is a great example where, you know, Tessa, I started writing comments on your posts three, four months ago. And, and here we've, we've been having, you know, a call or two a week now. Right. And, and we've built that relationship and rapport. And I would encourage anybody and everybody go comment on posts, go get to know folks, you know, LinkedIn is perfect for this. But, you know, I would also call out in one of my previous roles, I was, I was what I like to refer to as a lone wolf, where I didn't have peers. I didn't have folks. I could say, Hey, I'm stuck. I have this error. What do I do? And it was actually before our AI growth now. And so, you know, you learn to Google, you learn to take things apart. You know, my biggest recommendation is figure out, Hey, set a timer on your phone for 20 minutes. If you can't figure it out in that 20 minutes, you know, go take your code apart and start over, go for a walk, go do something else that gets you out of that, that stuck train of thought. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, I love that. So what I'm hearing, for folks who maybe don't have those senior developers, either at their employer or at their network, which, by the way, I'm alone now. And not that I'm necessarily writing code frequently. But gosh, is it hard to be alone, by the way. So find your tribe. But I think that what you're saying, in summary, to those who may not understand kind of the opportunities is like, go hang out in those developer channels. Where are the developers that are your peers? How can you spend time with them? And I think those can look like local meetups. They can be conferences. They can be little coffee shops where devs are getting together in the mornings. Gosh, that happens so frequently in so many places where there's just a small crew of people that get coffee at the same coffee shop. And they work for a few hours together. And then they go back and they finish their days. And, you know, try to find those physically. Then try to find those virtually, right? Like, let me see if I can get this to post up on the little ticker box. You know, that's something that I'm doing over at Built for Dev. It's like we are bringing developers together to have meaningful conversations like this. To be able to advance and understand where do we learn? How can we engage with each other? How do we find a mentor? How do we find awesome insights like what Chris has shared with all of us? I love that. So go hang out with your tribe, right? Okay, I've got one last question. And I think we're almost at time. But if anyone does have any questions who is a list who are listening, throw them in the chat and we'll see if we can get to them. My last question is similar question to the last one I asked. Where do you go instead to find advice when you're stuck? Where do you go when you're like, you know what? I can't solve this pain point. I don't think building it myself is the best solution. This is a pretty, pretty vast thing to solve. And maybe you're looking for a new tool, a new product, a new sort of integration flow. Where do you go to find those types of things? Are you still going to the senior devs? Sometimes. Sometimes. I would say that most of the time when you find yourself that stuck, you need to zoom out and ask the question, is this the right business solution to this problem? Right? Because there are very few things that actually don't exist. Right? Yeah. And there are very few problems that haven't happened prior. Sure. Right? And so oftentimes there is some solution out there. Most of the time you're building a form or a detail page or, you know, some kind of machine to machine integration and you're doing a data mapping. Right? Anything else you might have some weird logic in or something like that, but nothing should be so complex. Yeah. Yep. Okay. I like that. We don't have anything in the chat. So one final question before we wrap up. What does your tool stack look like? Like what's your favorite IDE? What's open on your computer right now? What is, tell me your opinions. What are your opinions on your tool stack? You know, it's, it's funny. I've been using JetBrains IDEs for 10 plus years. And I've just started to use a new IDE called Cursor. This is, I promise this is not an advertisement. It's okay. But Cursor is effectively VS Code with a clawed chat bar in it. And it will let you highlight your code, throw it at the AI. And, you know, you can have it explain it. You can have it refactor it. You can have it generate some code. Really, really fantastic tool. I've, I've kind of been on a, on a downward turn for the JetBrains stuff. Just it's, it's taken more memory and it's not as it used to be, et cetera. But, you know, the IDE means so little for which one you're using, as long as you're comfortable using it. Past that, you know, a lot of terminal. Big fan of iTerm 2 on the Mac. The ability to make tabs, do splits. I'll have eight to 10 terminals open at any given point in time. And it's, it's so key to the day-to-day. I love that. Okay. So follow-up question on Cursor, because I think whenever you're changing your IDE or whenever you're changing like a staple product in your developer workflow. Oh, even a question about Cursor too here. But my question is, how was it difficult for you to shift and start using Cursor instead? Because that's the big thing that I, when I'm working with my clients is I'm like, it's hard for devs to make that shift. So you have to make it valuable and make it known that it is worth taking that time and energy to fundamentally change your day-to-day workflow. You know, it wasn't too bad. Changing, you know, the key maps and getting used to, you know, when I go into any IDE, I go and figure out, okay, how do I close a window, which sounds silly, but it's different in every single one. How do I close a window? What's my hot key for, you know, quick search where, you know, like in WebStorm, I can do shift shift and then start typing a file name or a function name, press enter, and I'm there. Right. How do I do those two things? I think the only other one is how do I open and close the file explorer? And it's different in every single one somehow. Yeah. But, you know, those few things, I'm comfortable anywhere, you know, also give me dark mode. Right. But past that, you know, it's really just an editor, you know, as long as there isn't anything annoying that's happening, you're fine. Yeah. To answer Alex's question, there is actually a setting in cursor where you can, you know, set it to private mode where it won't train their LLM on your code. You know, I'm sure there's some legalese in there that, you know, take something or whatnot. You know, I would encourage you be mindful, you know, go read that stuff. Be mindful what you're asking the AI in any context. Right. Be mindful what you're asking. AI is a tool. It's going to, you know, really advance and accelerate your work, but it's not going to replace you and it's not going to do your whole solution for you. And so just in general, be mindful of what you're asking it and how you're shaping your work with it. Yep. I agree. All right. Any last words before we hop off the live stream? This has been awesome, by the way. This has been so fun. This has been so fun. And I look forward to the next one. Yay. Well, they're every day. So we will jump off here and end the stream. For anyone who's still listening, these are going to be a week daily live stream. So I will see you again tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. Central. Chris, where can folks find you if they want to? Are you hidden? Like most of you? I'm not too hidden. I'm on LinkedIn. Add me on LinkedIn. Send me a message on LinkedIn. You know, I'm glad to do a 30-minute mentoring call or, you know, just throw ideas up at the wall type call. You know, feel free to add me. Feel free to ask any questions. Glad to help how I can. Yep. And Chris is also pretty invested in the Built for Dev community, which I very much appreciate. So you can also likely find him inside of the hub as well. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I hope everyone has a fabulous rest of their day. Okay.